Boogie
Moderator
- Location
- Manchester UK
I feel awful
- Thread starter Lisa
- Start date
- Location
- Cornwall , UK
I am so sorry Lisa , but as said before , this was a provoked reaction . I appreciate how rotten you are feeling but it truly was not your fault, or Simbas either, big hugs xxxx
- Location
- Malvern Worcestershire
I am so sorry, you must feel really miserable. It is done now, your friend understands why it happened. These things go round and round in our heads, but time will heal. We are all here for you.
Naya
Moderator
- Location
- Bristol, UK
I echo what everyone has said about it not being your fault. I also agree that it would be good to put rules in place with any future visitors just as a precaution. I am glad that your friend realised he was at fault, and I hope he is ok too x
Really sorry Lisa, I hope you, your OH, Valera and Simba are ok. 
- Location
- Isle of Man
Sorry you're dealing with another provoked bite Lisa. It sounds as if everyone knows where it went wrong and I hope you all make a good recovery, physically and emotionally. I totally understand what it's like to have a dog like this. It is not easy. You need time now to process, learn and let it go. 
Lisa
Moderator
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Thanks all. Can’t say I feel much better this morning. Just wretched, really.
Part of it is that we know better. We do have “rules” so to speak, for visitors. Normally we have Simba on his bed when we are eating dinner, or when friends are over, and don’t allow him to be quite so close and personal with people. But generally most people are wary of a big dog, anyway. Simba might press up against them when they are sitting at the table (looking for cuddles, pets, etc) but most don’t respond like Valera. He was making a fuss, petting him, etc so I just didn’t go into my normal “watchful” mode. I was up, at one end of the table, putting plates in the dishwasher, Valera was sitting at the side of the table and had his back to me, turned to Simba. As I said, as soon as I understood what Valera was doing (blowing at his face) I was just about to say “Don’t…” and then it happened.
OH was at the opposite end of the table, facing Valera, but he is not normally quite so tuned into the dog. And it did happen quickly. It’s not like Valera was doing the blowing thing more than a second.
@HAH I don’t think there’s any underlying pain. Of course I don’t know for sure. But both those incidents were, in a sense, unprovoked incidents that Simba perceived as a threat and just overreacted. He has a thinner tolerance to those kinds of things than other dogs, obviously. But that’s what I mean by “dangerous”. People have been hurt. Valera will be scarred for life.
Neither of us could talk about it when we got home from the hospital last night. We’ll have to tackle it today.
Part of it is that we know better. We do have “rules” so to speak, for visitors. Normally we have Simba on his bed when we are eating dinner, or when friends are over, and don’t allow him to be quite so close and personal with people. But generally most people are wary of a big dog, anyway. Simba might press up against them when they are sitting at the table (looking for cuddles, pets, etc) but most don’t respond like Valera. He was making a fuss, petting him, etc so I just didn’t go into my normal “watchful” mode. I was up, at one end of the table, putting plates in the dishwasher, Valera was sitting at the side of the table and had his back to me, turned to Simba. As I said, as soon as I understood what Valera was doing (blowing at his face) I was just about to say “Don’t…” and then it happened.
OH was at the opposite end of the table, facing Valera, but he is not normally quite so tuned into the dog. And it did happen quickly. It’s not like Valera was doing the blowing thing more than a second.
@HAH I don’t think there’s any underlying pain. Of course I don’t know for sure. But both those incidents were, in a sense, unprovoked incidents that Simba perceived as a threat and just overreacted. He has a thinner tolerance to those kinds of things than other dogs, obviously. But that’s what I mean by “dangerous”. People have been hurt. Valera will be scarred for life.
Neither of us could talk about it when we got home from the hospital last night. We’ll have to tackle it today.
I’m so sorry this happened.
Regarding scarred for life—I’m not sure if you’re talking emotional or physical, or both? Regarding physical, I know two people who were bitten on the lips, and you can’t see a scar. One is the daughter of a friend. Their family dog ripped through her lip when she was 4 years old. She had laser treatments on the scar, and at 20 years old, you can’t see a thing. She’s a beautiful girl. The other is our opthalmologist vet. She works right up close to her patients’ faces. She had her lip ripped off by a patient. Luckily a plastic surgeon was on duty at the ER, and you can’t tell she was bitten. If you are worried, perhaps send your friend to a plastic surgeon to check that the stitching and aftercare will leave the best result.
Thinking of you all xxx
Regarding scarred for life—I’m not sure if you’re talking emotional or physical, or both? Regarding physical, I know two people who were bitten on the lips, and you can’t see a scar. One is the daughter of a friend. Their family dog ripped through her lip when she was 4 years old. She had laser treatments on the scar, and at 20 years old, you can’t see a thing. She’s a beautiful girl. The other is our opthalmologist vet. She works right up close to her patients’ faces. She had her lip ripped off by a patient. Luckily a plastic surgeon was on duty at the ER, and you can’t tell she was bitten. If you are worried, perhaps send your friend to a plastic surgeon to check that the stitching and aftercare will leave the best result.
Thinking of you all xxx
Lisa
Moderator
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
I was referring to physical, mainly.
The doc on call (another friend/acquaintance of ours, lol the benefits of small town life) did phone a plastic surgeon in a larger center 2 hours away to get his opinion on whether or not Valera should go there to be seen and stitched or whether he (the local doc) could do it. He couldn’t get hold of him and after waiting a couple hours discussed it with Valera. Valera didn’t want to go see the other doc and chose to have it done there. As the local doc said, he could do a 9/10 job and the plastic surgeon would be 10/10. But he wasn’t sure if the other guy would even do it. He said the plastic surgeon might also have said it was not necessary for him to do it and for the local guy to do it. So it was uncertain if that was required.
My OH was prepared to wait to hear back from the other surgeon and then drive Valera to the other centre but Valera chose not to. He just wanted it dealt with at that point. And he was fine with the local guy doing it. So, we had to honour his wishes.
He had a couple internal stitches in the lip muscle and the rest were external, a bit of a diagonal extending from the corner of the lip on a slight curving downward line.
Valera said, “Now I Stallone”. He looks like Frankenstein, more like, right now.
He was very good about it. But he is a handsome young guy and I can’t imagine that he won’t be left with some kind of scar.
The doc on call (another friend/acquaintance of ours, lol the benefits of small town life) did phone a plastic surgeon in a larger center 2 hours away to get his opinion on whether or not Valera should go there to be seen and stitched or whether he (the local doc) could do it. He couldn’t get hold of him and after waiting a couple hours discussed it with Valera. Valera didn’t want to go see the other doc and chose to have it done there. As the local doc said, he could do a 9/10 job and the plastic surgeon would be 10/10. But he wasn’t sure if the other guy would even do it. He said the plastic surgeon might also have said it was not necessary for him to do it and for the local guy to do it. So it was uncertain if that was required.
My OH was prepared to wait to hear back from the other surgeon and then drive Valera to the other centre but Valera chose not to. He just wanted it dealt with at that point. And he was fine with the local guy doing it. So, we had to honour his wishes.
He had a couple internal stitches in the lip muscle and the rest were external, a bit of a diagonal extending from the corner of the lip on a slight curving downward line.
Valera said, “Now I Stallone”. He looks like Frankenstein, more like, right now.
He was very good about it. But he is a handsome young guy and I can’t imagine that he won’t be left with some kind of scar.
My face was stitched loads and you can hardly see my scars you really have to look. Thing is with your face is it heals quickly and usually they stitch and use contours and eventually it can hardly be see the wound. With bite being a dog bite they will cover it with anti biotics so it will be ok. I'm a member of a sensible UK skin cancer group and facial scars get shown and discussed a lot and I'm always amazed how quickly they improve and disappear After care is really important too so when the stitches are out a good face like cetaphil or anything with bit E. After a while it will look like a laughter line. He sounds like he's accepting it and trying to reassure you. Please don't be too hard on yourself things happen it's just been a shock for you all.I was referring to physical, mainly.
The doc on call (another friend/acquaintance of ours, lol the benefits of small town life) did phone a plastic surgeon in a larger center 2 hours away to get his opinion on whether or not Valera should go there to be seen and stitched or whether he (the local doc) could do it. He couldn’t get hold of him and after waiting a couple hours discussed it with Valera. Valera didn’t want to go see the other doc and chose to have it done there. As the local doc said, he could do a 9/10 job and the plastic surgeon would be 10/10. But he wasn’t sure if the other guy would even do it. He said the plastic surgeon might also have said it was not necessary for him to do it and for the local guy to do it. So it was uncertain if that was required.
My OH was prepared to wait to hear back from the other surgeon and then drive Valera to the other centre but Valera chose not to. He just wanted it dealt with at that point. And he was fine with the local guy doing it. So, we had to honour his wishes.
He had a couple internal stitches in the lip muscle and the rest were external, a bit of a diagonal extending from the corner of the lip on a slight curving downward line.
Valera said, “Now I Stallone”. He looks like Frankenstein, more like, right now.
He was very good about it. But he is a handsome young guy and I can’t imagine that he won’t be left with some kind of scar.
My husband has a big scar on his face he grew a very sexy beard. Perhaps your friend will grow one. Sadly my scars are nowhere near my beard so I can't hide them in it
Atemas
UK Tour Guide
- Location
- North Cambridgeshire
I was bitten by a dog when I was little - over 67 years ago. He bit me near my mouth. I clearly remember being blamed for it - I stroked it the wrong way, I was told!!! I do have a scar although it became very faint and now I have acquired wrinkles with maturity, it’s of no importance. I do still feel indignation though that I was to blame. Hey ho.
This has been a horrible shock for you @Lisa. Thinking about you all
This has been a horrible shock for you @Lisa. Thinking about you all
I feel the same way about mine it's a scar who cares. It was very amusing when it was fresh because it's best not to have a dressing but it was big and stitchy it made people do big double takes. Im quite happy about these things so if someone had asked I would have shared. Loads of people started like horses but no one except a small kid asked. His parents nearly fainted but I told him I just hurt my face so my doctor stitched it up for me. He asked if it hurt and I said no not really. He was perfectly happy and I smiled at his parents who I sure found the sight disturbing. Scars fade in the end it's just face texture and character.I was bitten by a dog when I was little - over 67 years ago. He bit me near my mouth. I clearly remember being blamed for it - I stroked it the wrong way, I was told!!! I do have a scar although it became very faint and now I have acquired wrinkles with maturity, it’s of no importance. I do still feel indignation though that I was to blame. Hey ho.
This has been a horrible shock for you @Lisa. Thinking about you all
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I am so sorry Lisa, I can only imagine how you must be feeling. I wish I could be there in person to give you this hug
Lisa
Moderator
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Thank you, everyone.
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Valera sounds like a very cool dude! Try to take your cue from him and not let yourself be eaten up by guilt. I’m not minimising the pain or potential scarring, but he’s got a great attitude and that will make it easier for all of you to heal and move on.Valera said, “Now I Stallone”. He looks like Frankenstein, more like, right now.
He was very good about it. But he is a handsome young guy and I can’t imagine that he won’t be left with some kind of scar.
I was bitten by my grandfather’s girlfriend’s dog when I was 10 and feel similarly. Yes, it hurt at the time and yes, I still have a scar (which i care not one bit about or would have had it fixed during one of my half a dozen facial reconstruction surgeries after my train accident ). I even recognise that I could have been partly to blame by leaning over the dog (he was laying with his belly up) to pet him. I had my own dog and was used to giving belly rubs, but this poor little thing was most likely not used to strangers or children. I didn’t do anything purposefully wrong and I don’t blame the dog either.
But what really hurt was being blamed 100% and then told (by the dog’s owner who was a NURSE) to just put a bandaid on it and stop bleeding on her furniture. Which kind of makes me laugh today , but didn’t at the time! Like your friend, I ended up with a couple dozen stitches…and my mother ended up with a lifelong excuse to never visit my grandfather’s girlfriend’s house again, for which I believe Mom was very grateful.
Anyway, this is why I said earlier that your compassion and care for Valera goes a very long way in this situation. Of course you wish it wouldn’t have happened , but you aren’t letting it ruin your friendship and you are already thinking of new strategies to protect Simba and future visitors to your home.
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Also take it from someone else (in addition to Sarah) who has had a lot of facial surgery: it looks like absolute hell in the first days. You’ll be amazed what it looks like in a couple weeks and even more once fully healed in six months or so.
Boogie
Moderator
- Location
- Manchester UK
My son was bitten between the eyes by my friend’s dog (a lovely Old English Sheepdog). My friend had five children so the dog was used to kids.
Andy had four wounds but luckily her teeth missed his eyes. No visible scars as he grew up at all. None mental ether, but it affected my other son, who was older and saw it happen. He’s wary of dogs he doesn’t know.
It was entirely my fault I was chatting to my friend and our children were playing. We didn’t see Andy (18 months) crawl under the dog. She must have lashed out not knowing what it was as she was waggy and normal straight afterwards.
Hugs for you as you go forward from this.
Andy had four wounds but luckily her teeth missed his eyes. No visible scars as he grew up at all. None mental ether, but it affected my other son, who was older and saw it happen. He’s wary of dogs he doesn’t know.
It was entirely my fault I was chatting to my friend and our children were playing. We didn’t see Andy (18 months) crawl under the dog. She must have lashed out not knowing what it was as she was waggy and normal straight afterwards.
Hugs for you as you go forward from this.
- Location
- Canada
Just a quick note of support from me. It's nerve-racking, I know. Not just the bite, but the days after as you deal with the fall out. And Simba won't understand why you are all stressed out.
How are you holding up?
Defending himself from something he doesn't understand and makes him uncomfortable doesn't make Simba dangerous, but it does make him unpredictable. I'm a little muzzle-friendly, but I feel that I'd be considering one at this point. I can say from experience that if you have to deal with authorities post-bite, and you are muzzling by choice and have a trainer, they are more likely to leave it in your hands---meaning that when a muzzle is no longer needed, you can forgo it. Shamas was muzzled for about a year post-bite while he underwent retraining and medication.
My first stop would be the vet. A vet check will give you an idea of whether, as HAH mentioned, health is a factor, or if it's simply a factor of not liking what was done to him. At Shamas' post-bite vet check, we also discussed medication, and decided to try anti-anxiety medication. We already know that was at play with him.
I don't know what baggage Simba has but your vet does, and you do. I'm sure the two of you can put together a plan for quality of life.
How are you holding up?
Defending himself from something he doesn't understand and makes him uncomfortable doesn't make Simba dangerous, but it does make him unpredictable. I'm a little muzzle-friendly, but I feel that I'd be considering one at this point. I can say from experience that if you have to deal with authorities post-bite, and you are muzzling by choice and have a trainer, they are more likely to leave it in your hands---meaning that when a muzzle is no longer needed, you can forgo it. Shamas was muzzled for about a year post-bite while he underwent retraining and medication.
My first stop would be the vet. A vet check will give you an idea of whether, as HAH mentioned, health is a factor, or if it's simply a factor of not liking what was done to him. At Shamas' post-bite vet check, we also discussed medication, and decided to try anti-anxiety medication. We already know that was at play with him.
I don't know what baggage Simba has but your vet does, and you do. I'm sure the two of you can put together a plan for quality of life.