Lisa
Moderator
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Kipper’s got a limp
- Thread starter HAH
- Start date
Atemas
UK Tour Guide
- Location
- North Cambridgeshire
Humph; after this morning's walk Kipper's limping again on his front right. It looks and feels very much like a repeat of the previous sprain, and he's not showing discomfort beyond the limp (although I'm keeping half a mind that he might mask well too). Bed rest for the week, and we'll go from there...
Candy
Biscuit Tin Guardian
- Location
- West Yorkshire, UK
Poor Kipper, hope the bed rest does the trick and normal walks can soon be resumed.
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
Oh no, not again 
- Location
- East Sussex
That's such a shame Hannah. From a human point of view(speaking from experience) strains and sprains can take a very long time to heal, but when I've had them I've chosen to keep walking. When Molly was young I hurt my foot (eventually diagnosed by MRI as a partially torn tendon) and it took 18 months to get better. Last August I did something to my knee (I don't know what as I didn't seek medical help) and it was November before it felt ok again. But I would have been miserable if I hadn't been allowed to walk. I half expect to get shot down in flames for saying this, but I feel inclined to let dogs decide themselves how much exercise they are happy to do when they have an injury like a strain that just needs time. Molly had a limp that took months - eventually had x-rays but they showed nothing - and she did get over it at last. In the meantime we carried on much as usual as she always looked happy to go out. Conversely my last Lab in old age was suddenly in a lot of pain from arthritis and didn't want to move, so I didn't make him - obviously he received vet treatment and after a couple of weeks it was under control enough for him to enjoy gentle ambles again.
Thank you @Joy , this is interesting to read as it’s an ongoing discussion we’re having; my husband very sensibly says as you do with humans, keeping mobile is important for recovery. I’m inclined this way, but only if we know what it is - so we’re deciding when to ask for a specialist opinion and when to wait and see. At the moment we’re going to rest for 24 hrs, and if it’s behaving as before we’ll probably keep it light but with some daily movement, plus gentle massage to keep a close eye on progress and discomfort. I’m also conscious this is a small issue compared to many others so don’t want to overfuss.
Atemas
UK Tour Guide
- Location
- North Cambridgeshire
Sorry Kipper is limping again 
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Kipper 
get well soon
get well soon
- Location
- Cornwall , UK
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Oh, that's so discouraging that he's limping again. The whole rest or not thing is tough too. Sending lots of
Naya
Moderator
- Location
- Bristol, UK
Poor boy. Harley lumps on and off a lot. One day it can be a lot, then noth8ng for days, then it will appear again. We know hers is arthritis and she has hydro, physio and massage to keep her mobile. We now let her dictate if she wants to go out for a walk, but as you said, you don’t know what it is at the minute. Fingers crossed you get to the bottom of it soon x
Apols- long post!
Well, about 4 days ago Kipper starting limping again on his front right. (So glad I’ve got this log, which reminds me in April it was his front left).
It was sometimes quite pronounced, and a couple of times he had a quiver on the foot and it was slightly turned in - so OH took him to the vet. He saw the owner of the practice who’s great but also a cow expert, (and the owner). And all the male vets there are keen on intervention.
So - first and most importantly, Kipper is overweight at 37kgs. We knew he was over and are a couple of weeks into a steady reduction in kibble, but it was more than I thought. I think he’s okay at 32, but better at 30kg (and possibly less depending how he goes). So that’s priority #1.
The rest was unclear, but after a full exam (finding no inflammation or swelling) the vet suggested it was likely to be Osteochondritis Dissecans or OCD. I can see why he thinks that from our narrative: 2 episodes of limping characterized by improvement for a few weeks then a return; aged 2-3yrs; possibly caused jumping up in the kitchen (he limped after that, and yelled at the time but we didn’t see it happen); overweight; a Lab. But I think there are way too many uncertainties at the moment. Options we were given are
A. monitor, keep on reduced exercise with a gradual increase as it improves and weight loss;
B. Xrays of all joints at our local vets under general aesthetic, and see what follow up is needed (possibility of 2 injections 4x per year for ever after (?!), or surgery and another general aesthetic needed;
C. Go straight to orthopedic specialist for X-rays and surgery all at once under the same general aesthetic.
The risk if it is OCD is that this leads fairly quickly to osteoarthritis, which isn’t reversible.
So lots to think about!
If anyone has any insights, particularly around OCD or similar, I’d love to hear thoughts. My instinct is to be conservative, and if needed I’d like to see a physio before going down an invasive routes. For the next few weeks we’re concentrating on steady weight loss, low impact exercise and careful monitoring of comfort and mobility. We’re not going for anti-inflammatories as we want to see how the limp improves by itself, and he seems comfortable. Apparently he was really good at the vets and tolerated all the handling patiently. I’m proud of him.
Well, about 4 days ago Kipper starting limping again on his front right. (So glad I’ve got this log, which reminds me in April it was his front left).
It was sometimes quite pronounced, and a couple of times he had a quiver on the foot and it was slightly turned in - so OH took him to the vet. He saw the owner of the practice who’s great but also a cow expert, (and the owner). And all the male vets there are keen on intervention.
So - first and most importantly, Kipper is overweight at 37kgs. We knew he was over and are a couple of weeks into a steady reduction in kibble, but it was more than I thought. I think he’s okay at 32, but better at 30kg (and possibly less depending how he goes). So that’s priority #1.
The rest was unclear, but after a full exam (finding no inflammation or swelling) the vet suggested it was likely to be Osteochondritis Dissecans or OCD. I can see why he thinks that from our narrative: 2 episodes of limping characterized by improvement for a few weeks then a return; aged 2-3yrs; possibly caused jumping up in the kitchen (he limped after that, and yelled at the time but we didn’t see it happen); overweight; a Lab. But I think there are way too many uncertainties at the moment. Options we were given are
A. monitor, keep on reduced exercise with a gradual increase as it improves and weight loss;
B. Xrays of all joints at our local vets under general aesthetic, and see what follow up is needed (possibility of 2 injections 4x per year for ever after (?!), or surgery and another general aesthetic needed;
C. Go straight to orthopedic specialist for X-rays and surgery all at once under the same general aesthetic.
The risk if it is OCD is that this leads fairly quickly to osteoarthritis, which isn’t reversible.
So lots to think about!
If anyone has any insights, particularly around OCD or similar, I’d love to hear thoughts. My instinct is to be conservative, and if needed I’d like to see a physio before going down an invasive routes. For the next few weeks we’re concentrating on steady weight loss, low impact exercise and careful monitoring of comfort and mobility. We’re not going for anti-inflammatories as we want to see how the limp improves by itself, and he seems comfortable. Apparently he was really good at the vets and tolerated all the handling patiently. I’m proud of him.
- Location
- Cornwall , UK
I " Loved " your post , not because of the limp but him being such a good boy xx
For what its worth , I think you are making a wide decision with option A . Keep a diary so that you can refer back , as its easy to forget and then make an informed choice if and when it becomes necessary , big hugs to you xxxxx
For what its worth , I think you are making a wide decision with option A . Keep a diary so that you can refer back , as its easy to forget and then make an informed choice if and when it becomes necessary , big hugs to you xxxxx
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
Poor Kipper.
Well, I know the human approach would be lose weight and exercise/physio.
This combination might be the solution, but if it does cone to surgery at some point. Would put kipper in the best possible position for a good recovery.
That's about the extent of any input from me, and with a caveat the human and veterinary medicine are often quite different.
Well, I know the human approach would be lose weight and exercise/physio.
This combination might be the solution, but if it does cone to surgery at some point. Would put kipper in the best possible position for a good recovery.
That's about the extent of any input from me, and with a caveat the human and veterinary medicine are often quite different.
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
Poor Kipper 
I don't know, I'm putting myself in your position and my mind keeps jumping between two things. The first is it feels like a huge jump to a diagnosis after two episodes of soreness. Of course it COULD be something but surely it could also be nothing
But then, I also don't know that I'd be content accepting that Ella might have had two lots of soreness just because she's a bit on the chunky side.
Obviously you're going to work on the weight. That's a no brainer.
I think personally, I'd go with the x-rays too. I say this as I did get an x-ray of Ella's joints when her teeth were cleaned (so it was the same GA) as I just wanted peace of mind. I also had one video where she looked like she flinched in pain in her hip while running like a loony and I just couldn't get it out of my mind. Luckily for us, it ruled out any joint issues and we were able to treat the flinch as a one off.
I don't know, I'm putting myself in your position and my mind keeps jumping between two things. The first is it feels like a huge jump to a diagnosis after two episodes of soreness. Of course it COULD be something but surely it could also be nothing
But then, I also don't know that I'd be content accepting that Ella might have had two lots of soreness just because she's a bit on the chunky side.
Obviously you're going to work on the weight. That's a no brainer.
I think personally, I'd go with the x-rays too. I say this as I did get an x-ray of Ella's joints when her teeth were cleaned (so it was the same GA) as I just wanted peace of mind. I also had one video where she looked like she flinched in pain in her hip while running like a loony and I just couldn't get it out of my mind. Luckily for us, it ruled out any joint issues and we were able to treat the flinch as a one off.
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
It would depend how I feel instinctively about the severity. 7kg over is a significant amount, so obviously that needs addressing one way or the other. The problem is that reduced exercise means it's more difficult to get the weight off, so option A may take a lot longer. I think I'd be more inclined to go for B. He's young, fit, and healthy, so the GA shouldn't be too much of a cause for concern. At least then you'll know and not be guessing.
Atemas
UK Tour Guide
- Location
- North Cambridgeshire
Yes I agree with @snowbunny. The weight issue is a big factor and hopefully you will be able to get it reduced easily but it will probably take some time. In the meantime x rays would give you an idea of what you are dealing with.
I hope you don't mind me suggesting it, but perhaps there are other options? Monty has OCD as part of his ED, but please don't let this worry you as it might be nothing.
If you are going to go for A, I would combine it with an anti inflammatory. Six weeks lead walking will help to reduce inflammation, but even if Kipper doesn't appear to be in pain they are good at hiding it, and a limp does mean he Has discomfort even though it might be intermittent. Combined with weight loss, you could see how it goes for the next month or so.
If it doesn't work, or you want further investigation, can I suggest you get a referral to a ortho specialist and have a CT scan? This is my logic.... if you go with A and it doesn't disappear, you will go back for X-rays. Anything that shows up, unless your regular vet is also a referral centre, they are going to send you off to a specialist anyway. The two ortho surgeons I've seen weren't even interested in the x rays I showed them, as far as they were concerned only a CT scan would give them the best chance of a definite diagnosis. Please don't worry about the GA, they are incredibly safe- and by going straight for CT you would limit it to one GA anyway. As for whether you have anything done while he is under, I'm not sure, that's probably a few steps away anyway.
Also, the specialist will spend lots of time manipulating joints and testing for flexibility, movement and pain, and will feel other joints, you could get shoulders and wrists checked out too.
Of course, if his X-rays come back clear it will give you some peace of mind..... but if he's still limping you will probably end up being referred to a specialist centre anyway, and again, they are likely to recommend CT.
Another thing to do alongside this, is see if you can find a vet who specialises in pain management, they can do physio, laser treatment, acupuncture, - if you could find one with a gait analysis mat this would also be useful to you as firmly identifies which limbs, and to what extent, are causing the problem.
I don't know if it helps, but I had quite a long thread on the old forum of our process of getting diagnoses. However, I don't want you to get stressed about long term problems when there simply might not be any.
On the weight thing, nothing to add, other than the first thing we did was switch to a light kibble, with fewer calories in but gave enough satiety, and then of course you can look at adding in veggies too, to increase bulk but not calories.
Ps, this is only my own experience, not based on anything more. We have had subsequent X-rays to check progression of the ED and HD. Monty luckily bounces right back from GAs, he's had at least six now.
If you are going to go for A, I would combine it with an anti inflammatory. Six weeks lead walking will help to reduce inflammation, but even if Kipper doesn't appear to be in pain they are good at hiding it, and a limp does mean he Has discomfort even though it might be intermittent. Combined with weight loss, you could see how it goes for the next month or so.
If it doesn't work, or you want further investigation, can I suggest you get a referral to a ortho specialist and have a CT scan? This is my logic.... if you go with A and it doesn't disappear, you will go back for X-rays. Anything that shows up, unless your regular vet is also a referral centre, they are going to send you off to a specialist anyway. The two ortho surgeons I've seen weren't even interested in the x rays I showed them, as far as they were concerned only a CT scan would give them the best chance of a definite diagnosis. Please don't worry about the GA, they are incredibly safe- and by going straight for CT you would limit it to one GA anyway. As for whether you have anything done while he is under, I'm not sure, that's probably a few steps away anyway.
Also, the specialist will spend lots of time manipulating joints and testing for flexibility, movement and pain, and will feel other joints, you could get shoulders and wrists checked out too.
Of course, if his X-rays come back clear it will give you some peace of mind..... but if he's still limping you will probably end up being referred to a specialist centre anyway, and again, they are likely to recommend CT.
Another thing to do alongside this, is see if you can find a vet who specialises in pain management, they can do physio, laser treatment, acupuncture, - if you could find one with a gait analysis mat this would also be useful to you as firmly identifies which limbs, and to what extent, are causing the problem.
I don't know if it helps, but I had quite a long thread on the old forum of our process of getting diagnoses. However, I don't want you to get stressed about long term problems when there simply might not be any.
On the weight thing, nothing to add, other than the first thing we did was switch to a light kibble, with fewer calories in but gave enough satiety, and then of course you can look at adding in veggies too, to increase bulk but not calories.
Ps, this is only my own experience, not based on anything more. We have had subsequent X-rays to check progression of the ED and HD. Monty luckily bounces right back from GAs, he's had at least six now.