Maxx at training

[snowbunny]

Straight through the tunnel without hesitation

Once they get to grips with it, the tunnel normally becomes super magnetising.My dogs all absolutely love it, and I have to be very clear with them if we're running past it, or they'll just go through it for the giggles

 

[Lab_adore]

Hubby and I looked outside this morning, saw the sun and took off for dog training with just light jackets. GAH! There is an arctic wind and it is freezing. There was one emergency heavier jacket in the car but who gets it? Me of course as I'm standing still. I lasted 5 minutes then gave the jacket to Steve and now I'm holed up in the car and I can't even see them.

But at least I can have a MLF catch up

 

[Lab_adore]

I was doubly disappointed to hear that I missed Maxx doing the agility course perfectly off lead!

He's a different dog at school. It's like something clicks and he knows he has to be good and focused.

We spoke to a different trainer about his jumping up. Most of them tell us to encourage people to turn their backs but that's not working. This guy said to teach him to jump up on command and then lavish treats when he gets down and teach that as a command 'down'. I am all for trying anything but hubby is dead against it as he thinks it will send the wrong message to Maxx that jumping up is ok. I see his point too

Will just keep trying the ignoring but when you don't know someone it's hard to ask them to help you out by turning their backs

 

[Joy]

I don't think it's a good idea to teach Maxx to jump up on cue. The people turning their backs is only half the training strategy. Train a 'down' ( as in 'lie down') at home where there are no distractions and reward this very heavily - with delicious food and also by releasing to play a tug game with you after a time (a couple of seconds at first, gradually building). Then, when Maxx is lying down as soon as you give the cue, take him somewhere where there are just a few people at a distance and practise it there. Gradually work nearer to people. If possible get people to help by standing being boring at an agreed distance, one where Maxx can still lie down or focus on a game with you. Gradually get the people to come closer, or be more exciting. I'd also get the people to actually walk quietly away if Maxx does jump up rather than just turning their backs. And take this as a signal that you still need to work at a greater distance.
I don't know if this video will work but it shows a very calm dog in a busy town centre - but this dog used to launch himself at anyone within reach in excitement. We trained him as I've outlined above.

OneDrive

 

[snowbunny]

Apologies for a bit of a rant coming up... do feel free to scroll on past

I think getting people to turn their backs is a rubbish strategy. You have no control, for one. Secondly, you’re being reactive, not proactive. The whole point is that you should be trying to prevent the behaviour happening, not coming up with a way to punish it when it does. His behaviour is happening because it’s being reinforced. If it wasn’t, it would die out all by itself. That means the simple act of performing it means it’s more likely to happen again in the future. You can try to punish it by turning your back, but as soon as you understand that it is also being reinforced you should be able to see that any punishment had to exceed that reinforcement to be effective. If you are ok to use punishment, fine, but there are far more effective ways of doing so. Turning your back? Nah. Unless your dog is super sensitive, that’s a crappy strategy. If your dog is sensitive enough for it to work quickly ... again, you probably have bigger issues than a jumping dog.
Thirdly, and maybe most importantly, how does turning backs deal with the function of the behaviour? What drives the behaviour? So often people say it’s for attention, but really? Really? Are you saying the dog only gets attention when he’s jumping up and gets none otherwise? If that’s the case, you have more serious issues than a jumping dog. So, given that’s bull crap, how about we look at the real reason he’s jumping up? Which, nine hundred and ninety nine times out of a thousand is the dog is just too excited and can’t deal with that. So why don’t we look at how we can address that instead of focusing on the behaviour?
Now, how do we go about finding a solution to a dog that is in your face and that calms him down at the same time?
A few suggestions:
1.Scatter food on the floor every time someone turns up.
2. Slowly place or drop single pieces of kibble on the floor one at a time.
3. Teach a slow delivery reward marker, where the dog stays in place and the food comes to him.
4. Give him a chew, a toy, or a stuffed kong

All of these can be done before the jumping, without the need to set up scenarios, without relying on other people to behave in a certain way. You can mix them up, it doesn’t matter. In time, he will mature and not need to jump up. In the interim, you can use these techniques which will both prevent the problem and give him a way to calm down when people are around. Then he practices calm behaviours around people. Behaviours that happen more frequently are more likely to happen more frequently in the future. Tada! You get a win for very little effort.

I am anti teaching unrelated incompatible behaviours when those behaviours do nothing to address the “why” because, firstly, it’s difficult and, secondly, it’s putting a bandaid over an infection. Instead, treat the cause and the symptom disappears.

 

[Lab_adore]

Thank you both. We will try all of this and let you know how it goes

 

[MrChew]

Apologies for a bit of a rant coming up... do feel free to scroll on past

I think getting people to turn their backs is a rubbish strategy. You have no control, for one. Secondly, you’re being reactive, not proactive. The whole point is that you should be trying to prevent the behaviour happening, not coming up with a way to punish it when it does. His behaviour is happening because it’s being reinforced. If it wasn’t, it would die out all by itself. That means the simple act of performing it means it’s more likely to happen again in the future. You can try to punish it by turning your back, but as soon as you understand that it is also being reinforced you should be able to see that any punishment had to exceed that reinforcement to be effective. If you are ok to use punishment, fine, but there are far more effective ways of doing so. Turning your back? Nah. Unless your dog is super sensitive, that’s a crappy strategy. If your dog is sensitive enough for it to work quickly ... again, you probably have bigger issues than a jumping dog.
Thirdly, and maybe most importantly, how does turning backs deal with the function of the behaviour? What drives the behaviour? So often people say it’s for attention, but really? Really? Are you saying the dog only gets attention when he’s jumping up and gets none otherwise? If that’s the case, you have more serious issues than a jumping dog. So, given that’s bull crap, how about we look at the real reason he’s jumping up? Which, nine hundred and ninety nine times out of a thousand is the dog is just too excited and can’t deal with that. So why don’t we look at how we can address that instead of focusing on the behaviour?
Now, how do we go about finding a solution to a dog that is in your face and that calms him down at the same time?
A few suggestions:
1.Scatter food on the floor every time someone turns up.
2. Slowly place or drop single pieces of kibble on the floor one at a time.
3. Teach a slow delivery reward marker, where the dog stays in place and the food comes to him.
4. Give him a chew, a toy, or a stuffed kong

All of these can be done before the jumping, without the need to set up scenarios, without relying on other people to behave in a certain way. You can mix them up, it doesn’t matter. In time, he will mature and not need to jump up. In the interim, you can use these techniques which will both prevent the problem and give him a way to calm down when people are around. Then he practices calm behaviours around people. Behaviours that happen more frequently are more likely to happen more frequently in the future. Tada! You get a win for very little effort.

I am anti teaching unrelated incompatible behaviours when those behaviours do nothing to address the “why” because, firstly, it’s difficult and, secondly, it’s putting a bandaid over an infection. Instead, treat the cause and the symptom disappears.

Thanks for this post.

It really is impossible to manage other people anyway, which is part of why we have given up on the idea of people turning their backs etc. And anyway, Chewie isn't sensitive at all in that sense. He just LOVES everyone and wants to kiss them all on the face because he gets so overstimulated by their presence.

So far we do the kongs when visitors come over with some success. We also try to make sure he has already done something fun before people come over, so his pressure valve has released a bit. I do try to stream treats when we are out and about, with mixed success because I'm clumsy and he turns into a crocodile when he's excited. Which is a pity because his favoured demographic to jump on are older women, who also generally form the Chewie fan club.

He STAYS excited for ages, so I suppose the Kong is probably the best thing, though I like the idea of a slow release reward marker. It's the kind of thing that he would understand really well I think, the clever little bugger.

This is becoming more of an issue since we have more visitors now, and not all of them are comfortable around dogs, though I'm sure they will all come around eventually.

 

[Emily]

This is becoming more of an issue since we have more visitors now, and not all of them are comfortable around dogs, though I'm sure they will all come around eventually

We still have the crate set up in the lounge room. We have so heavily reinforced (still do) her crate that she loves it and we always put her in there when visitors come round as she STILL gets too excited. After a couple of minutes, once the visitors have sat down and settled in (I think it's the commotion of people arriving and the 'hellos' that gets her excited) we let her out and she usually walks over, says hello and then finds somewhere to lie down. If she's lucky, our visitors will invite her onto the couch for a snuggle

 

[Lab_adore]

Maxx is ok with my Dad who is our only regular visitor. In fact he is so lovely and gentle with him he has turned dad from complete dog hater to even giving Maxx the odd pat. If Steve and I are both busy getting dinner ready Maxx will go and sit at his feet and they have a one sided chat. It's so nice

But every other person is JUST the MOST exciting thing that has EVER happened OMG OMG

 

[Jen]

He's a different dog at school. It's like something clicks and he knows he has to be good and focused.

Stanley was like this. He ended up in the advanced group very early on but as soon as we had to do it in real life he was like LOL.

I stopped going in the end and invested that time in taking him into the real world to practice because we had all the tools, just needed to implement it.

He’s generally pretty good at most things now, will occasionally ignore me on a walk but that’s getting rarer and rarer

 

[MrChew]

Our most regular visitor is OH's closest friend and Chewie mostly ignores him, except to give him the stink eye when he is sitting in his chair... This tells me there is hope!

He still goes nuts for his grandmothers, but hopefully that will settle down in time. At least my mum now adores him and my MIL always liked him.

Our house is too small to bring the crate back with all the baby paraphernalia. We have recently put up a "baby gaol" (playpen) that takes up most of our dining area so I have somewhere to pop the baby for 5 minutes when I need to. Maybe Chewie can go in there when people come over...

 

[Loraseal]

But every other person is JUST the MOST exciting thing that has EVER happened OMG OMG

Yep I know how it is......It takes 5 mins of calm (snacks etc) and then he is OK. But boy can those 5 mins feel like 5 days!

 

[SwampDonkey]

I was doubly disappointed to hear that I missed Maxx doing the agility course perfectly off lead!

He's a different dog at school. It's like something clicks and he knows he has to be good and focused.

We spoke to a different trainer about his jumping up. Most of them tell us to encourage people to turn their backs but that's not working. This guy said to teach him to jump up on command and then lavish treats when he gets down and teach that as a command 'down'. I am all for trying anything but hubby is dead against it as he thinks it will send the wrong message to Maxx that jumping up is ok. I see his point too

Will just keep trying the ignoring but when you don't know someone it's hard to ask them to help you out by turning their backs

I've done this with Rory because he's a jumper upper. It's worked and he usually only jumps up me when I say Huggies. He is much better and only gives me Huggies now . I love his Huggies. Your oh didnt want to go to training either did he?

 

[Loraseal]

Huggies is a good command....Hunter responds well to sound "s". Think I will try huggies!

 

[SwampDonkey]

Rory responds to too snoggy poos too. He gives me a kiss then. Im silly

 

[snowbunny]

I've taught my lot to stand up against me. I don't think it's made any difference to them one way or the other as far as "jumping up" is concerned; that is always driven by over-excitement or, in Willow's case, fear.
It's quite interesting because Squidge really struggles to stay stood up against me; it's not a natural position for her, whereas Shadow would stand there all day. And when Squidge "jumps up", it's more her jumping in place in front of us. Her dad did exactly the same thing when we first met him. I think it must be down to the proportions of their rear legs.

 

[Atemas]

We let both dogs jump up against us when we say ‘group hug’ which is a regular occurrence in this house. Sky can’t jump up anymore but stands close in for her hug .

If it’s any consolation @Lab_adore, Red still hasn’t stopped her jumping - she is masses better than she was but a friend came round on Sunday and I gave Red the benefit of the doubt by being by me when I opened the front door. Wrong! Red immediately jumped on her. I seem to remember she jumped on @Shaz82 last week and she tried to mug her for her treats in her pocket. Hey ho, more work to do on this - we’ll get there eventually

 

[Joy]

In a way dogs jumping at visitors isn't such a big deal as you can always put the dog somewhere else with a kong, throw treats on the floor etc, but I do think if a big dog is jumping up at strangers when you're out, then you do need to either manage (keep on lead) or train. I'm not convinced that all dogs grow out of jumping up as they mature (certainly I frequently have small dogs jumping up at me when I'm out - because they're small it's just a minor irritation). The dog in the video I posted was four years old when we started to train, so past the age when if it was going to happen naturally it would.
Of course a huge amount of the training isn't just heavily rewarding an incompatible behaviour, it's building the dog's relationship with its owner, so that the dog looks to them for excitement and interest.
Molly jumped at people when she was around a year old and (because I hadn't thought of it) I didn't put in place a training programme as I'm advocating. I just used to put her back on lead when I spotted someone she was likely to jump up at, but it also coincided with me hugely increasing the amount of playing with her I did on 'walks' and I think it was the combination of me becoming the person who provided stimulation and preventing the unwanted behaviour from happening that led to her no longer jumping up.

 

[Lab_adore]

I've done this with Rory because he's a jumper upper. It's worked and he usually only jumps up me when I say Huggies. He is much better and only gives me Huggies now . I love his Huggies. Your oh didnt want to go to training either did he?

Hubby has come along even further than Maxx! Luckily I am a very patient person but it has been worth every bitten tongue. You should see them together at school - I'll try and get some good video. It's closed to accommodate a massive school athletics thing next week (pffft dogs are more important) but definitely the week after