This sounds like bad planning on the part of the trainer, to me. Three hours of waiting around with little action is terrible for most dogs. I have walked out of a full-day training session before now, where I had to wait around for too long, as I felt the benefits were not outweighing the disadvantages of having a young dog become frustrated by being forced to wait for too long.This is an interesting thread. We started going to monthly positive group gundog classes in the spring (now having a break sadly, and after the break will be relocated to North Wales which is unfortunately I think too far to go to Evesham for class again...) and some classes went really well, but others (particularly the last which was water work at the lakes) there was so much waiting round for one retrieve that the Pig started her bored frustrated routine of staring at me, then sneezing at me, then clacking her teeth at me and setting up a squeaky bark that, if not attended to ends up in jumping up and humping of my rucksackI know its a good opportunity to work on calmness, watching other dogs etc. etc. but not for so long, and it just seems a chance for the Pig to practice undesirable behaviours. It did make her very keen when it was finally her turn to do a single retrieve but she was on the edge of madness by the end (as was I). Three hours of that is way too long with so little action. I guess the ideal situation is the occasional group class when you want to specifically focus on calm round other dogs, watching other dogs retrieve etc., but for actually learning work for the dog, one-to-ones I think are much more valuable.
The right trainer for you but the wrong trainer for your dog?
- Thread starter Peartree
- Start date
- Location
- Herefordshire, UK
That's great!
Yes, absolutely it's a lottery -- I think I'm getting to the point were I could describe exactly the trainer I would like, with the good bits of all those I have tried! It's seems like @Plum's mum has struck lucky!
Boogie
Moderator
- Location
- Manchester UK
I have both - classes 1-1 and group classes. The pups progress far quicker in the group classes, I progress far quicker in the 1-1s
Yes, absolutely it's a lottery -- I think I'm getting to the point were I could describe exactly the trainer I would like, with the good bits of all those I have tried! It's seems like @Plum's mum has struck lucky![/QUOTE]
I have found a trainer that I like, the classes are good with the behaviours broken down into teachable chunks, but she is a traditional trainer and my positive methods are only tolerated and not encouraged!
I have found a trainer that I like, the classes are good with the behaviours broken down into teachable chunks, but she is a traditional trainer and my positive methods are only tolerated and not encouraged!
When Harv was around 6 months old we took him to some group training sessions with a lady gundog trainer near Evesham. I really liked the sessions and found them very informative. We also liked the fact that it was positive training having already 'experienced' some traditional training.
However, from the 'let them all have a free run' at the beginning to the end of the session Harv was a complete and utter lunatic (some 4.5 years later I might now re-phrase this as being 'too far over threshold to be able to take in anything we were trying to teach', but you get the general idea!). I don't think he actually took in anything at the sessions.
Fast forward to now and we have re-visited gundog training with a different trainer and things are progressing well (we are soon to take part in the 'advanced' course). Is it because Harv has matured? (my initial response would be hysterical laughter followed by a 'no' but when we meet people we haven't seen for a while they all say how much calmer he is so perhaps we are too close to see it). Is it because we are better trainers/owners than we were then? We are better but I don't think this is it either. Is it the new class? Yes, I think it is ...
The current trainer doesn't push the use of clickers and treats but is more than happy for students to use them if they wish. Her incentives/rewards for successful actions are lots of praise and affection - letting your dog know just how pleased you are with them. The class sizes are pretty small - typically around 6-8 dogs. Furthermore, she always has a 'little helper' (an experienced gundog person who isn't quite as knowledgeable as the instructor ) so that for each exercise the class can be split in half so that the waiting time is reduced. I'm not saying that this is anything unique or that it would work for everyone but it seems to work for us.
Caveat: Harv is often the only 'pet' dog at the classes and is also still sometimes the Class Clown - having a crazy Wall of Death episode and racing around the field like a lunatic is referred to as 'having a Harvey-ism'!. It isn't as often or for as long as it used to be but the Hurricane is still alive and well 
Edit: OK, this is a little difficult to explain. @Mrs UB says she feels that some of the success is down to the fact that the trainer just expects Harv to be able to do anything that she asks of him. There is no 'do you think he will be able to do x?'. She explains what she wants and we do it. I suppose it's probably a confidence thing - if you set out to do something assuming that you will be successful then there is a greater chance of a positive outcome than if you set out doubting yourself or your dog.
However, from the 'let them all have a free run' at the beginning to the end of the session Harv was a complete and utter lunatic (some 4.5 years later I might now re-phrase this as being 'too far over threshold to be able to take in anything we were trying to teach', but you get the general idea!). I don't think he actually took in anything at the sessions.
Fast forward to now and we have re-visited gundog training with a different trainer and things are progressing well (we are soon to take part in the 'advanced' course). Is it because Harv has matured? (my initial response would be hysterical laughter followed by a 'no' but when we meet people we haven't seen for a while they all say how much calmer he is so perhaps we are too close to see it). Is it because we are better trainers/owners than we were then? We are better but I don't think this is it either. Is it the new class? Yes, I think it is ...
The current trainer doesn't push the use of clickers and treats but is more than happy for students to use them if they wish. Her incentives/rewards for successful actions are lots of praise and affection - letting your dog know just how pleased you are with them. The class sizes are pretty small - typically around 6-8 dogs. Furthermore, she always has a 'little helper' (an experienced gundog person who isn't quite as knowledgeable as the instructor ) so that for each exercise the class can be split in half so that the waiting time is reduced. I'm not saying that this is anything unique or that it would work for everyone but it seems to work for us.
Caveat: Harv is often the only 'pet' dog at the classes and is also still sometimes the Class Clown - having a crazy Wall of Death episode and racing around the field like a lunatic is referred to as 'having a Harvey-ism'!
. It isn't as often or for as long as it used to be but the Hurricane is still alive and well Edit: OK, this is a little difficult to explain. @Mrs UB says she feels that some of the success is down to the fact that the trainer just expects Harv to be able to do anything that she asks of him. There is no 'do you think he will be able to do x?'. She explains what she wants and we do it. I suppose it's probably a confidence thing - if you set out to do something assuming that you will be successful then there is a greater chance of a positive outcome than if you set out doubting yourself or your dog.
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Oh so tricky isn't it!
I've been to Evesham too
and found it very useful. Some days have been very skills based and have been lots of reps in small groups. The water days do seem to have more waiting but the dogs can only swim so much. I find the talking bits useful as it gets to the why of what's happening which is important if you're going to modify stuff with +R training.
Both my dogs found the ground there incredibly distracting and peed endlessly
I also sometimes go to a traditional trainer with smaller groups where you generally 'do retrieving' a lot of it. This is good for Riley who's easily bored and then distracted. Obi on the other hand would retrieve all day on 3m retrieves on short grass (probably not well) but he'd just go and go.
I think overall you have to choose the right trainer and environment that suits you and your dog at various stages in your training journey and don't be embarrassed about saying something isn't right for you at that particular time.
Ps totally agree with Heidrun about spaniels in classes, generally not a good thing early on.
I've been to Evesham too
and found it very useful. Some days have been very skills based and have been lots of reps in small groups. The water days do seem to have more waiting but the dogs can only swim so much. I find the talking bits useful as it gets to the why of what's happening which is important if you're going to modify stuff with +R training. Both my dogs found the ground there incredibly distracting and peed endlessly
I also sometimes go to a traditional trainer with smaller groups where you generally 'do retrieving' a lot of it. This is good for Riley who's easily bored and then distracted. Obi on the other hand would retrieve all day on 3m retrieves on short grass (probably not well) but he'd just go and go.
I think overall you have to choose the right trainer and environment that suits you and your dog at various stages in your training journey and don't be embarrassed about saying something isn't right for you at that particular time.
Ps totally agree with Heidrun about spaniels in classes, generally not a good thing early on.
- Location
- Herefordshire, UK
Above 2 posts very interesting, I'm about to go there for 1,2.1, so that I can see how I feel before going to group session. Retrieving on short grass does not float Cassie's boat, I have discovered, and in a group situation less so.
nooooo--- this strikes fear in my heart, this happened at a dog training club I went to, disaster for Cassie !
This is absolutely true, and sometimes it is necessary to say 'no, this really isn't working for me' - difficult though that may be. When I first started gundog training I was far too much in awe of the trainer to speak up against something I didn't agree with. Now I am perfectly capable of saying 'we'll sit that exercise out, thank you' - or even 'this session just isn't going right for us, we're going to call it a day'. Only once have I left a seminar on a bad note (where the trainer was later a judge in a competition, and marked us down unfairly!!!!!) - most trainers completely get it and are fine with constructive criticism.
Fear not! The instructor is very knowledgable and I'm sure you'll get some value from the 1:2:1. You can then discuss your concerns with her before doing any group sessions.
- Location
- Malvern Worcestershire
Yes
- Location
- Herefordshire, UK
Yes, you are right, I know! I think now that I have got to know Cassie and have learned so much about modern dog training methods that has helped me build up her desire to retrieve, and it's a joy to see, I'm excited to go the training session!I've yet to go to any trainer where I didn't gain something useful from the session. None have been perfect though
- Location
- Herefordshire, UK
Yep, exactly my reason for booking 1.2.1, even though I've had to wait! I have explained my concerns in my email.
- Location
- East Sussex
@UncleBob, I think Mrs UB makes a good point. If the general attitude is 'can-do' I'm sure that instils confidence in owners and hence transfers to the dogs.
It brings to mind a singing workshop I used to go to where the 'boss' (for want of a better word) just expected we could all (30 + people) do what he was teaching us even when it was tricky with many harmonies etc. He didn't give anyone an 'out' and always managed to produce a most beautiful sound.
Another place I went to would go easy easy believing there was too much diversity in ability and people lacked confidence and so the result was very mixed.
Food for thought.
It brings to mind a singing workshop I used to go to where the 'boss' (for want of a better word) just expected we could all (30 + people) do what he was teaching us even when it was tricky with many harmonies etc. He didn't give anyone an 'out' and always managed to produce a most beautiful sound.
Another place I went to would go easy easy believing there was too much diversity in ability and people lacked confidence and so the result was very mixed.
Food for thought.