Vets of today

[Candy]

Soon genAI will take over knowledge jobs. I’m guessing the big corporate vet companies will require you to first use a genAI app to do the initial diagnosis before you even see the vet in person. Consulting an actual person will be the reserve of the wealthy.

Last week, in an online interview, I was certain the candidate was using an AI bot to generate his answers because they were too fluent and generic.

I can't help but wonder about accountability when AI is used as a replacement for jobs that involve decision-making as far as health and wellbeing is concerned. Who is accountable if a mistake is made? As a nurse the importance of this was drummed into us from the start and we had to continually update and review our practice and could be called upon to provide evidence that we were doing so. We also had regular team discussions on issues concerning culpability and accountability. How does this work with AI?
I find it all quite alarming.

 

[Stacia]

I can't help but wonder about accountability when AI is used as a replacement for jobs that involve decision-making as far as health and wellbeing is concerned. Who is accountable if a mistake is made? As a nurse the importance of this was drummed into us from the start and we had to continually update and review our practice and could be called upon to provide evidence that we were doing so. We also had regular team discussions on issues concerning culpability and accountability. How does this work with AI?
I find it all quite alarming.

Good question Candy.

 

[M.F.]

@Candy such an important question. My nephew works for a company that has developed an AI tool that provides the first diagnosis from medical images. The tool is used in several hospitals around the world. It can process far more images than a person can, and sometimes picks up serious issues that the person didn’t see. My understanding is that it’s used for triaging, but the ultimate decision is the doctor’s. But this is now. What will be in the future is anyone’s guess. AI is developing at such a rapid rate.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I’ve said this before - probably multiple times in multiple places - but as someone who uses vet services in a variety of places, I’ve had the same experience as @Cath . Other EU countries (France, Spain, Italy, Germany) where I’ve been to the vet are exponentially cheaper than the UK. The UK is on par with the US.

This also applies to human medical services. Private care and pharmacy in the UK, like in the US, seems to have no cost caps imposed by the government. This has surprised me as everywhere else I’ve had to have med care or medications in Europe, prices are controlled even for private-paying patients such as myself. The price differences are massive.

@Jacqui-S, isn’t it almost impossible to attract young doctors to the NHS when they could make so much more by going private?

By the way, this isn’t a criticism of the UK system, just curiosity. I think pretty much everyone in the universe knows the US wins the dubious contest of worst healthcare system in a developed country.

 

[Jacqui-S]

isn’t it almost impossible to attract young doctors to the NHS when they could make so much more by going private?

I don't think the private sector attracts junior doctors away as training programmes post foundation year training are all NHS based (and quite frankly getting on them is a shockingly bad processs imho.....).
I think the risk for the UK is that they disappear overseas.
Scott and Eilidh's impression from going to NZ is that social care is fabulous, medical care a bit meh and training not so hot. They found they had much more experience than their NZ equivalents.

I don't know whether vets are in the same situation at all, having no public funded services (I think its only the PDSA that offer susidised/free vet treatment). So basically no competition? And the best vets often have waiting lists......

PS nice to see you back @Emily_Babbelhund

 

[Cath]

Yes lovely to see you back Emily @Emily_Babbelhund

 

[Stacia]

Yes lovely to see you back Emily @Emily_Babbelhund

Yes, it is, was getting quite worried about Emily.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I don't think the private sector attracts junior doctors away as training programmes post foundation year training are all NHS based (and quite frankly getting on them is a shockingly bad processs imho.....).
I think the risk for the UK is that they disappear overseas.
Scott and Eilidh's impression from going to NZ is that social care is fabulous, medical care a bit meh and training not so hot. They found they had much more experience than their NZ equivalents.

I don't know whether vets are in the same situation at all, having no public funded services (I think its only the PDSA that offer susidised/free vet treatment). So basically no competition? And the best vets often have waiting lists......

PS nice to see you back @Emily_Babbelhund

Thank you for the pov of someone in the trenches. I’d not considered ‘brain drain’ out of the UK.

And thank you @Jacqui-S, @Cath, and @Jelinga for the kind words.

 

[Sophiedoodle]

Had our two at the vets on Monday for their annual check up & boosters.... cost us £84 for both, which i felt was very reasonable. I was pleasantly surprised!

 

[MrChew]

I don't think the private sector attracts junior doctors away as training programmes post foundation year training are all NHS based (and quite frankly getting on them is a shockingly bad processs imho.....).
I think the risk for the UK is that they disappear overseas.
Scott and Eilidh's impression from going to NZ is that social care is fabulous, medical care a bit meh and training not so hot. They found they had much more experience than their NZ equivalents.

I don't know whether vets are in the same situation at all, having no public funded services (I think its only the PDSA that offer susidised/free vet treatment). So basically no competition? And the best vets often have waiting lists......

PS nice to see you back @Emily_Babbelhund

I do some remote work for NZ and they seem so very under resourced compared to Aus. And we are under resourced too! (I think all healthcare workers say the same thing)

 

[Stacia]

Had our two at the vets on Monday for their annual check up & boosters.... cost us £84 for both, which i felt was very reasonable. I was pleasantly surprised!

Absolute bargain Sophie

 

[edzbird]

I've just had a text saying Meg's 6 month health check is due. I had one for Coco too. The 6 month health check is new and for £24.99 Meg can have

• Weight and body condition review
• Teeth and gums inspection
• Eyes, ears, skin, and coat evaluation
• Flea and worm treatment status
• Vaccination status check and booster recommendations
• General health questionnaire covering appetite, activity, behaviour and more
• Joint and mobility assessment

I'll just do it myself thank you. They can't get near Meg anyway and don't even do it on the annual vaccination appointment (though I still get charged the same as Coco who they DO give a cursory once over to), but what a total con. They are preying on pet owners in my opinion.

 

[Jacqui-S]

preying on pet owners

Making you feel if you don't do this you are neglecting your family member. Yup.
Same if you decline vaccinations (I don't usually) or tick/flea treatments (often do....)

 

[Atemas]

They are preying on pet owners in my opinion.

We have been paying £17 a month for a few years which covers yearly vaccinations, flea treatment monthly and worm treatment every three months. It also includes a twice year health check. Now going up to £22.99 a month (it includes lots of discounts on things not applicable to Red and some I hope never will be). This seems a huge increase but I know everything has gone up. We’ve tried to cost it all separately but it’s a bit of a minefield. We’ve reluctantly decided to continue it for another year then review.

 

[Stacia]

We have been paying £17 a month for a few years which covers yearly vaccinations, flea treatment monthly and worm treatment every three months. It also includes a twice year health check. Now going up to £22.99 a month (it includes lots of discounts on things not applicable to Red and some I hope never will be). This seems a huge increase but I know everything has gone up. We’ve tried to cost it all separately but it’s a bit of a minefield. We’ve reluctantly decided to continue it for another year then review.

A friend of mine who is a retired vet, did some costing over the weekend, whether to join the health plan at new vet practice and said it came out as cheaper not to join. It is a new independent vet, we went to open day on Saturday, very well kitted out with up to date equipment and of course cheaper. However, as she is single handed, slightly concerns me, so not making a decision yet to make the move.

 

[Selina27]

I'll just do it myself thank you.

Quite.

Making you feel if you don't do this you are neglecting your family member.

Too bad!

 

[Selina27]

It is a new independent vet, we went to open day on Saturday, very well kitted out with up to date equipment and of course cheaper. However, as she is single handed, slightly concerns me, so not making a decision yet to make the move.

This sounds good Sonia, hopefully it would be beneficial for you. The young woman who has done the same near me has gone from strength to strength and I believe she now has a staff of 14 vets and nurses, some of whom worked at the practice she left after they were bought by a corporate concern.
I think it's encouraging that more practices like this are opening.

 

[Lab_adore]

I do some remote work for NZ and they seem so very under resourced compared to Aus. And we are under resourced too! (I think all healthcare workers say the same thing)

Steve's sister is a nurse in NZ and is always in despair about the health care there. When Steve was first diagnosed with Bowel cancer, within 10 days he had multiple scans, an appointment with the radiologist with treatment beginning within a few days, an appointment with the oncologist and a firm booking for his first surgery due in a few weeks. When his sister heard this she said if he was in NZ he would still be waiting for the first scan (even with private health insurance) for the first month at least.

What I witnessed with visiting him in hospital so many times was overworked nursing and other staff but they were always professional and caring. I have nothing but heartfelt gratitude and admiration

 

[Stacia]

Making you feel if you don't do this you are neglecting your family member. Yup.
Same if you decline vaccinations (I don't usually) or tick/flea treatments (often do....)

I always decline flea treatment and health plans and don't feel the least bit guilty

 

[MrChew]

Steve's sister is a nurse in NZ and is always in despair about the health care there. When Steve was first diagnosed with Bowel cancer, within 10 days he had multiple scans, an appointment with the radiologist with treatment beginning within a few days, an appointment with the oncologist and a firm booking for his first surgery due in a few weeks. When his sister heard this she said if he was in NZ he would still be waiting for the first scan (even with private health insurance) for the first month at least.

What I witnessed with visiting him in hospital so many times was overworked nursing and other staff but they were always professional and caring. I have nothing but heartfelt gratitude and admiration

OHs nephew is currently waiting to have his tonsils and adenoids removed in NZ and has been for more than a year. Of course, they could have been done in Aus when OH spoke to his parents and we noticed it was impairing his speech... But what do we know. (I digress...)